Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

dusthillresident · 2021-10-03 22:04:28

Post YES in this thread if you will find an alternative desktop environment if the XFCE desktop applications (text editor, etc etc) get redesigned to use CSD.

dusthillresident · 2021-10-03 22:05:29

YES

ToZ · 2021-10-03 22:17:21

There was a poll posted here earlier in the year. Here are the results of that poll.

I still think a good compromise would be to make CSD optional - via a switch.

dusthillresident · 2021-10-03 22:38:18

I think it's so messed up that GNOME basically controls every aspect of the linux desktop ecosystem. Like you just can't get away from it. If GNOME just kept to themselves and did their CSD thing that would be fine, instead they dictate it to everyone that everyone else needs to do it too. I really deeply resent it. I haven't touched the gnome desktop itself since 2011 and I'm still forced to deal with gnome bullshit because GTK is absolutely everywhere. you can't get away from it.

Last edited by dusthillresident (2021-10-03 22:39:37)

mr_glitch · 2021-10-04 01:45:24

dusthillresident wrote:

If GNOME just kept to themselves and did their CSD thing that would be fine, instead they dictate it to everyone that everyone else needs to do it too.

They don't dictate anything GTK is made for GNOME no matter you like it or not. It's not for Linux desktop environments in general, and it doesn't mean, no one except GNOME can use it. For example, Pantheon DE use GTK and GNOME, but they wrote own widget library instead of using libhandy/libadwaita and/or pushing GNOME to implement stuff they need. They even help with development.

After last event with Jeremy Soller from System76 I can understand why collaboration with GNOME is or can be though. There are also Jeremy's tweets, but I don't want to spend time to find them.

TL;TR
- Can you do something for me?
- Maybe we can do this in proper way, can you help?
- maybe

ToZ wrote:

I still think a good compromise would be to make CSD optional - via a switch.

CSD switch seems to be a good middle ground, but I'm curious how problematic it will be in the long run. I know that Liferea have plugin to switch from titlebar to CSD.

Compositoron · 2021-10-06 01:42:44

CSD looks good in my opinion. Not on everything, so, as noted, that gtk3-nocsd works well for programs I don't want to have csd.

Tio · 2021-10-13 01:07:14

Optional is the best approach in my view. We use global menus and no window bar when maximized for our TROMjaro.com distribution and works really great, but gnome apps are the greatest offenders. Global Menus, and especially HUD are amazing tools that will break it seems, if you implement this. I'd rather love to see XFCE supporting global menus and HUD properly and officially.

denyer · 2021-10-16 13:07:08

My objection's likewise less about visuals and more that windows are there for a window manager to manage and make behave consistently. It's not for individual application developers to ignore the system they're running things on. That's why the 90s was full of novelty interfaces for scanners, webcams, etc and I'd rather not go backwards twenty or thirty years.

For main box already switched start of 2020. Plasma with a mix of stuff (custom icon set, apps using various toolkits plus some legacy things with Wine) and have found it stable and light. There's a lot of active development, and unlike with Windows/Gnome/etc there isn't usually an abusive relationship with the user community where existing functionality gets removed.

Xfce seems to be losing its identity. Some core devs seem to have stronger ties to Gnome and Elementary, elements of those DEs are being imported into Xfce, and its points of being a light (or least not heavy) traditional DE are catered for by other projects.

ToZ · 2021-10-16 13:24:26

It looks like a window has opened to make CSD optional. From https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/-/issues/14:

@shawnanastasio are you still up for a merge request to introduce an opt-out toggle? I only ask now because I talked with other devs and now this has a chance of getting merged.

MountainDewManiac · 2021-11-05 01:41:20

I'll probably eventually simply stop using my laptop. I'm already down to sporadic usage (as opposed to "hours each day"). I turned it on last week, realized I hadn't updated things in a while (happens, I suppose, when one only powers the thing up once or twice per week to read a text file), so I ran the Mint updater and installed all updates. I turned it on a few days later, and imagine my surprise (actually, negative change in the linux world barely surprises me any more sad ) when, upon running Chrome web browser, I discovered that its maximized window is now larger than the display. Now, the top of the tab part of the display is cut off, the "X" (for closing the application) in the top right corner is almost completely off the screen - to the point where I mostly just cause the top panel to unhide when I attempt to hover my mouse over that X. Et cetera. Oh, and now any link I hover my mouse over refuses to display the actual link at the bottom of the screen. While having to use other means to exit the app is merely annoying to the extreme, that one is a stupid security risk! Anyone with at least eight years of existence and 80 IQ points can post a link that displays as (for example) Helpful Xfce Tips - but actually leads to a malware installation website (FFS).

But I digress. Yes, I'll likely end up leaving Xfce - but, at this point in time, I don't really see anything to switch to.

I used to give the Xfce developers the benefit of the doubt, attempt to be charitable in my thinking, etc. I'd even tell people, "Remember, it's a very small team of developers, so they pretty much have to grab other people's product to use in their DE (even when that product is the computer equivalent to a maggot-infested pile of feces from a diseased muskrat), because they simply don't have the developer hours to create that thing from scratch." That kind of thing.

But that line of thought, well... I have come to realize that it is false at its core. Why? Because the thing that they changed from still exists! The code hasn't gone <POOF>. So why did they decide to make the switch?

Hmm...

Because someone else did.

Ever see what happens if/when a toddler manages to get its dirty diaper off, lol? Little kids will play with anything and everything - so the usual result is that you end up with feces everywhere. Why do I have the feeling that if one of theses people ever visit someone immediately after such an event occurs... that they'll rush right home and start biologically decorating their home? Because that's what they do, jump on someone else's bandwagon. Without bothering to look to see whether that's a safe thing to ride on, where it's going - or whether they'll end up spreading sh!t all over the place.

And don't tell me it's done in order to bring new features. If you add one feature to a thing, but in the process ruin fifteen others, THAT'S NOT AN IMPROVEMENT IN ANY SANE PERSON'S MIND!

This time of year, in the Northern hemisphere, the temperature is dropping. If one wakes up and realizes that it's cold in their house, they could set it on fire. I mean, hey, that'll warm the place up, yeah? But should you? Well, if your ultimate intent is to leave the house a smoking ruin, go right ahead. Or you could invite one of these people to visit; from observation, my guess is that they'll do it for you. . . .

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#1 2021-10-03 22:04:28

Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#2 2021-10-03 22:05:29

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#3 2021-10-03 22:17:21

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#4 2021-10-03 22:38:18

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#5 2021-10-04 01:45:24

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#6 2021-10-06 01:42:44

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#7 2021-10-13 01:07:14

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#8 2021-10-16 13:07:08

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#9 2021-10-16 13:24:26

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

#10 2021-11-05 01:41:20

Re: Post YES if you will switch away from XFCE if the apps get CSD

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