Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

Skaperen · 2018-12-14 00:10:34

i have decided to switch from Unity to XFCE. i am running on Ubuntu Xenial Xerus 16.04.5 LTS Desktop edition using Unity. but i have modified many things and would most likely find it to be rather unproductive for some time as i work things out on a new DE that i don't know much technical details about, yet. so what i want to do is make the transition gradually, as fast as i can make things work.

the first thing i need to work out on XFCE is how to have eventually a dozen userids logged in at the same time. i am the only user of this computer except for 3 or 4 people who rarely login via SSH to a shell maybe once every 2 to 6 months. i do login about a dozen different userid and run usually 9 workspaces for each (yes, over 100 total). the userids are for specific isolation and different contexts. many programs like firefox can do this for me, but they don't do it the same way, or in a coordinated way. having different userid contexts works out exactly the way i like. in Unity there is a drop down menu in the extreme upper right at the gear icon. that's where i can log users out or switch users. what's going on behind the scenes is that a separate X server runs for each user, and when i switch users it switches which X server controls the screen and reads input devices. this switch works like virtual console switching done with Ctrl+Alt F1-F12. in fact, those controls can also be used.

so i need to have something like this with XFCE to have any hope to carry out this transition. from that point on, it will just be a matter of what that userid has set up, such as workspaces. since each user is a different X server, everything after switching between users should be easy. it has taken me a lot of work getting things set up, especially the initial automated setup.

despite being a "power user" in that context (as well as shell, scripting, and systems programming), i don't know that much of my way around desktop graphical systems. i do know how to draw lines, circles, and fractals and export images to files like GIF and PNG. i do a lot of programming with AWK, bash, C, Pike, and Python. i previously programmed in C and PCL on TOPS-20 (DECsystem 20) and Fortran, PL/1, and Assembler on IBM/Amdahl mainframes.

so i am first asking if someone who also understands this on Unity can tell me how to do the user switch and initial setup of up to 12 logged in users, on XCFE under my existing install of Ubuntu Xenial Xerus 16.04.5 LTS Desktop edition. i plan to skip 18.04 LTS and do a fresh install of 20.20 LTS a couple months after it comes out.

ToZ · 2018-12-14 01:14:44

Xfce is a userspace desktop environment - meaning that it runs when someone is logged in. The majority of what you are asking about above is related to X Windows or other services than it is with Xfce. Things like multiple simultaneous logins is the responsibility of the display manager - not Xfce. So basically, if your display manager allows multiple simultaneous logins, Xfce will work as a separate userspace DE for each. Lightdm, for example, is a display manager that supports this (I am sure there others as well).

Within Xfce, if you use the Whiskermenu or a modified Actions plugin, you can tie into lightdm's functionality that switches users on the fly.

If possible, run the Xubuntu LiveCD/USB to get a feel for how this works.

Skaperen · 2018-12-14 20:29:25

what i am thinking about doing is starting with one user and switching that one user over to XFCE. i don't know what is needed to do that. i want to know what file changes need to be made for that user, presumably in their home directory. but my big concern is how to switch (back) to other users once i am there. where in the XFCE desktop default layout would i find the means to do that?

then i will gradually switch over more users until i have all but one that i won't be using much converted over. i'll leave one on Unity, for now. then hopefully, i can just do a full fresh install of Xubuntu when i go with 20.04 LTS in a couple years.

running the live CD is not practical. i have many things going on in parallel and switching computers is no longer easy for me to do.

Last edited by Skaperen (2018-12-14 20:33:56)

MountainDewManiac · 2018-12-14 23:11:53

If you add the second desktop environment (and don't run into issues with that), then you can switch users on the fly by using the Action Buttons panel applet or the Switch Users button on the Whisker Menu (assuming you choose to use that menu). There may be other ways, IDK.

And you can always do the usual "log out of one account, log into the next, then log out of it and log back into your original one."

Skaperen wrote:

i want to know what file changes need to be made for that user, presumably in their home directory.

I'm not sure what you mean there. You install the new DE to your system as a whole (so to speak), not into one of your user home directories. See ToZ's post, above, about the display manager and such. You select your DE (on a multi-DE system) at boot time, in your DM.

Regards,
MDM

Skaperen · 2018-12-15 07:04:31

i normally have many userids logged in concurrently. currently i have 10 logged in. the maximum is 12. logging out users is not an option most of the time.

the fact that each user logged in is on its own instance of the X server (each has a different string value for the DISPLAY environment variable) can effectively be like separate system. years ago i ran Slackware with 12 X servers (and 50 text consoles) with 3 different window managers.

when a user selects what kind of environment they want with a GUI app, it make some kind of file system change for that, just like ever setting/configure app does. what i want to know is what these changes are so i can do my own programming on it.

back when i ran 3 window managers on Slackware, it do it by changing a reference to a different startup script that run from user login. the login screen also had a drop down menu to make a choice overridding the saved choice.

have you ever tried Unity? create a 2nd user and login to it by typing the command:
dm-tool switch-to-user username
(sudo not needed).

ToZ · 2018-12-15 13:13:33

Skaperen wrote:

have you ever tried Unity? create a 2nd user and login to it by typing the command:
dm-tool switch-to-user username
(sudo not needed).

This is the point that I was trying to make. This isn't specific to Unity - it will also work in Xfce. The functionality to do this sits with the display manager - lightdm - not Xfce.

Skaperen · 2018-12-16 06:23:15

ToZ wrote:

Skaperen wrote:
have you ever tried Unity? create a 2nd user and login to it by typing the command:
dm-tool switch-to-user username
(sudo not needed).
This is the point that I was trying to make. This isn't specific to Unity - it will also work in Xfce. The functionality to do this sits with the display manager - lightdm - not Xfce.

how can i rapidly interface to that? is that gear icon menu in the far upper right something that Unity runs and communicates to lightdm, or does lightdm put that on the screen itself?

long ago, i had been planning to write a VNC switcher. it would be a daemon you connect with a VNC client. it would have its own interface to connect to other VNC servers. it would allow many concurrent connections. it would have a slide in menu with a button for each connection plus one for the interface to connect more. just move the mouse rapidly to where you put it and it slides out into view, ready to be clicked on to switch session. maybe someday this will really happen. maybe i can call it vncmux.

how much is my VNC switcher like a display manager such as lightdm, though with different mechanisms. it seems similar to me.

can i create buttons on XFCE that don't require me to have something running but will run a specified command when clicked? people have told me that Unity can do this but it has never been successful. i'm thinking to create a few buttons to run dm-tool commands quickly.

Last edited by Skaperen (2018-12-16 06:25:54)

ToZ · 2018-12-16 11:27:06

Skaperen wrote:

ToZ wrote:
Skaperen wrote:
have you ever tried Unity? create a 2nd user and login to it by typing the command:
dm-tool switch-to-user username
(sudo not needed).
This is the point that I was trying to make. This isn't specific to Unity - it will also work in Xfce. The functionality to do this sits with the display manager - lightdm - not Xfce.
how can i rapidly interface to that? is that gear icon menu in the far upper right something that Unity runs and communicates to lightdm, or does lightdm put that on the screen itself?

lightdm puts it there. It populates it using information from /usr/share/xsessions (IIRC).

long ago, i had been planning to write a VNC switcher. it would be a daemon you connect with a VNC client. it would have its own interface to connect to other VNC servers. it would allow many concurrent connections. it would have a slide in menu with a button for each connection plus one for the interface to connect more. just move the mouse rapidly to where you put it and it slides out into view, ready to be clicked on to switch session. maybe someday this will really happen. maybe i can call it vncmux.
how much is my VNC switcher like a display manager such as lightdm, though with different mechanisms. it seems similar to me.

Yes, it sounds similar.

can i create buttons on XFCE that don't require me to have something running but will run a specified command when clicked? people have told me that Unity can do this but it has never been successful. i'm thinking to create a few buttons to run dm-tool commands quickly.

Yes, you can create panel launchers. Or menu items. Or desktop launchers.

Skaperen · 2018-12-16 16:59:08

> lightdm puts it there. It populates it using information from /usr/share/xsessions (IIRC).

so i would see it, and can use it, even with xfce?

> Yes, you can create panel launchers. Or menu items. Or desktop launchers.

so how does one go about doing this? i'm wanting to know it as what goes where. so if you set it up with some GUI APP, what file(s) did it put in place ... i'll just put them in place, myself, on each of 18 userids (then i am sure things are the same on each).

ToZ · 2018-12-16 23:23:50

Skaperen wrote:

> lightdm puts it there. It populates it using information from /usr/share/xsessions (IIRC).
so i would see it, and can use it, even with xfce?

Yes. At this point Xfce hasn't started yet. From lightdm you pick the Xfce session and lightdm launches it.

> Yes, you can create panel launchers. Or menu items. Or desktop launchers.
so how does one go about doing this? i'm wanting to know it as what goes where. so if you set it up with some GUI APP, what file(s) did it put in place ... i'll just put them in place, myself, on each of 18 userids (then i am sure things are the same on each).

On the panel: http://xubuntugeek.blogspot.com/2013/03 … er-to.html
In the menu: https://www.internalpointers.com/post/a … -xfce-menu (or you can use a menu editor)
On the desktop: Right-click the desktop and select "Create a launcher". Fill in the dialog.

The issue you are going to have is to add the launcher to each of the 18 user accounts. Xfce doesn't have an "All Users" desktop like Windows does. You'll have to do them individually for each desktop (or script something to automate it).

Skaperen · 2018-12-17 06:47:41

> (or script something to automate it)

i usually do "power commands" like:

(cat userlist|while read u;do sudo cp ~/.bashrc-new $(eval echo ~$u/.bashrc);sudo chown $u:$u $(eval echo ~$u/.bashrc);done)

and, yes, i really do type in big complex commands a lot. but when i want a script i often code it in Python. a terminal window (i'm migrating to xfceterminal, now) is where i hang out a lot, often working on Python code to automate stuff on AWS, these days.

Skaperen · 2018-12-24 18:34:21

which packages do i need to install? i just want switch users over to xfce, just one for now, more later as i get things i need working in it. this is ubuntu xenial xerus version 16.04.5 lts, last upgraded yesterday (planning to upgrade again as i install these packages).

ToZ · 2018-12-24 23:34:04

I just answered in your other thread.

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#1 2018-12-14 00:10:34

Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#2 2018-12-14 01:14:44

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#3 2018-12-14 20:29:25

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#4 2018-12-14 23:11:53

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#5 2018-12-15 07:04:31

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#6 2018-12-15 13:13:33

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#7 2018-12-16 06:23:15

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#8 2018-12-16 11:27:06

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#9 2018-12-16 16:59:08

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#10 2018-12-16 23:23:50

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#11 2018-12-17 06:47:41

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#12 2018-12-24 18:34:21

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

#13 2018-12-24 23:34:04

Re: Transitioning to XFCE under Ubuntu

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